Harm OCD Explained: What It Is, Why It Happens & How to Manage It | Ep. 481

In this heartfelt episode, Kimberley Quinlan and therapist Lacey Yukelson unpack what harm OCD really is, why it feels so terrifying, and how recovery becomes possible when you stop fighting the thoughts and start changing your response.

What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why harm OCD can feel so real, urgent, and deeply distressing, even when it goes completely against your values
• How intrusive thoughts, images, and urges can target the people and things you love most
• The hidden compulsions that keep harm OCD stuck, including avoidance, reassurance, rumination, and mental checking
• Lacey’s personal story of living with harm OCD and how she began doing exposures on her own
• Practical ways to respond to intrusive thoughts without spiraling into fear or compulsions
• Why the thoughts themselves are not the problem, and how changing your reaction can open the door to recovery

What Harm OCD Really Is (And How Recovery Happens)

Have you ever been walking down the street, holding your child, standing near a balcony, or simply sitting in your home when your mind suddenly flashes an image or urge that feels terrifying?

“What if I hurt someone?”
“What if I lose control?”
“What if this means something about who I am?”

If this has happened to you, I want to start by saying something very clearly:

There is nothing wrong with you.

In this week’s episode, I sat down with one of our wonderful therapists, Lacey Yukelson, to talk openly about harm OCD, what it is, why it happens, and most importantly, how healing is absolutely possible.

What made this conversation especially powerful is that Lacey not only treats OCD, but she also shared her own lived experience with harm OCD. Her story is deeply moving, incredibly validating, and full of hope.

Let’s walk through the most important takeaways from our conversation.

What Is Harm OCD?

Harm OCD is a subtype of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which a person experiences intrusive, unwanted thoughts, images, sensations, or urges about causing harm to themselves or others.

These thoughts can center around:

• hurting a loved one
• harming a stranger
• hurting a child
• jumping from a height
• using sharp objects
• causing accidental harm
• self-harm fears

The most important thing to understand is this:

These thoughts are ego-dystonic.

That means they go directly against your values, character, and intentions.

In fact, the very reason these thoughts feel so distressing is because you care deeply about safety, love, and protecting others.

The thoughts are not a reflection of your desires.
They are a reflection of what matters most to you.

 

Why Harm OCD Feels So Terrifying

One of the hardest parts of harm OCD is that it doesn’t just come as a thought.

Sometimes it can feel like an urge, sensation, or physical pull.

This is where many people become even more frightened.

You may think:

• What if this urge means I want it?
• What if I act before I can stop myself?
• What kind of person even thinks this?

Lacey described how, as a child, she experienced vivid intrusive thoughts of harming her younger sister. Later, those fears expanded to include knives, windows, boiling water, razors, and anything that could potentially be used as a weapon.

This is so common in harm OCD.

The brain becomes hyper-focused on danger and starts scanning for anything that could become a threat.

Suddenly, everyday objects no longer feel neutral.

A kitchen knife becomes terrifying.
A balcony feels dangerous.
Even being close to the people you love can feel overwhelming.

 

The Compulsions That Keep Harm OCD Going

Harm OCD is not just about intrusive thoughts.

It is also about the compulsions we do to try to feel certain and safe.

Lacey beautifully explained that many of her compulsions were mental.

These included:

Reassurance

Telling herself:

• I would never do that
• I’m a good person
• I was just near a knife and nothing happened

Avoidance

Staying away from:

• knives
• scissors
• razors
• boiling water
• windows
• garbage disposals
• loved ones in vulnerable moments

Mental Review

Going over past moments to “prove” she was safe.

Rumination

Trying to figure out why the thought happened.

Self-monitoring

Constantly checking:

• How do I feel right now?
• Did that urge feel real?
• What if I secretly want this?

These behaviors may feel protective in the moment, but they actually teach the brain that the thought is dangerous.

That is what keeps the OCD cycle alive.

The Hidden Pain of Harm OCD: Shame and Identity Attacks

One of the most heartbreaking parts of harm OCD is the way it attacks identity.

The inner narrative can become incredibly cruel.

You may hear thoughts like:

• I’m a monster
• I’m dangerous
• I don’t deserve love
• I’m disgusting
• What if I’m secretly a bad person?

This shame can make people suffer in silence for years.

Lacey shared that she did not tell anyone what was happening in her mind until she was around 21 years old.

This is something I see so often.

People with harm OCD are frequently terrified that if they speak the thoughts out loud, they will be misunderstood.

Please hear me when I say this:

Intrusive thoughts are not intentions.
Thoughts are not facts.
Having the thought does not make it true.

 

What Recovery Actually Looks Like

One of the most powerful parts of our conversation was hearing how Lacey began healing.

She reached a breaking point.

She became exhausted from living under OCD’s rules.

And that moment is often where recovery begins.

Not because it suddenly becomes easy,
but because the cost of staying trapped becomes greater than the fear of doing the work.

She began learning about OCD and Exposure and Response Prevention (ERP), which is the gold standard treatment for OCD.

ERP helps you gradually face the situations, sensations, and thoughts that OCD tells you to avoid.

This might look like:

• standing near knives without leaving the room
• cooking meals
• being close to loved ones
• standing near windows or balconies
• allowing intrusive thoughts to exist without analyzing them

The goal is not to prove the thought wrong.

The goal is to teach your brain:

I can tolerate uncertainty without doing compulsions.

 

The Skill That Changes Everything: Change the Reaction

One line from this episode stood out so powerfully:

The thoughts aren’t the problem. The reaction is.

This is such an important truth.

Recovery is not about eliminating intrusive thoughts forever.

In fact, many people continue to experience random intrusive thoughts from time to time.

Recovery means changing how you respond.

Instead of:

• avoiding
• reassuring
• ruminating
• checking
• escaping

you begin to practice:

• noticing
• allowing
• disengaging
• returning to what matters

That is where freedom lives.

 

A Compassionate Way to Respond to Intrusive Thoughts

Lacey shared a beautiful metaphor she now uses in both her own life and with clients.

She thinks of OCD as the high school bully.

If you argue with the bully, it gets louder.
If you run from the bully, it follows you.

But if you simply say:

“Oh, there you are again.”

and continue on with your day, the bully eventually gets bored.

This is such a powerful example of thought defusion.

Instead of merging with the thought, you create space from it.

You acknowledge it without engaging.

For example:

• Thanks, OCD.
• There’s that thought again.
• Maybe, maybe not.
• I’m noticing my brain is telling me this story.

And then you gently return to your life.

 

Let Your Values Lead

One of my favorite parts of this conversation was how deeply Lacey uses values-based living.

When OCD says:
Leave the room.

She stays.

When OCD says:
Don’t go near your child.

She moves toward what matters and offers connection.

A hug.
A moment of presence.
A shared experience.

This is not about proving safety.

It is about refusing to let fear dictate your life.

Ask yourself:

What would I do right now if OCD wasn’t making this decision for me?

Then take one gentle step in that direction.

 

Recovery Is Possible

If you are struggling with harm OCD, I want to leave you with this:

You are not dangerous because you have intrusive thoughts.

You are not broken.

You are not alone in this experience.

And most importantly:

Recovery is possible.

You do not need to wait until fear disappears.

Healing happens when you begin living alongside uncertainty while moving toward what matters most.

Even one small brave step counts.

And sometimes that one step becomes ten.

Then, before you know it, you are living a life that OCD once told you was impossible.

That is recovery.

That is hope.

And I want that for you.

---

Transcription: Harm OCD Explained: What It Is, Why It Happens & How to Manage It

Kimberley: Have you ever walked down the street and all of a sudden you’re hit with an intrusive thought that maybe what if you wanna hurt someone? Maybe it’s someone you love, maybe it’s someone you care for, or maybe it’s just some random stranger on the street. If that is you, I want you to know there is nothing wrong with you, and we are here today to talk about harm OCD, what it is, why it happens, and how you can manage it.

 

Now, the exciting thing here is I have one of my amazing therapists who work at our clinic. Her name is Lacey Yukelson, and she’s here to kind of talk with me. We’re together going to sort of present to you. What harm o CD is. Lacey has specific lived experience, which I think you’re gonna find so inspiring, and we’re gonna really get to the bottom of what you can do if you’re struggling with harm o cd.

 

So thank you, Lacey, for being here. 

 

Lacey: Of course, I’m happy to be here. 

 

Kimberley: Oh my gosh. Okay, so first of all, you tell me a little bit about your history or your relationship with harm o cd. 

 

Lacey: Oh man. It’s been quite a ride. Um, I think I first. Started noticing that something was off as young as like seven years old.

 

I, I remember like laying in bed at night, not being able to sleep, not being able to turn my brain off. Um, I shared a room with my sister at the time, my little sister and I just had these. Vivid thoughts of hurting her, and it almost felt like my brain was like plotting all these ways to do it and all these ways that I could do it.

 

And it was terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. I remember going to my mom, it was early in the morning, she was sitting at the computer and I distinctly remember going up to her and telling her that I thought I had voices in my head telling me to hurt people. I just, I was so confused. 

 

Kimberley: What did she do? 

 

Lacey: The hard part is, is that my mom’s mom had schizophrenia, so I think she got really scared and didn’t know what to do, not because she didn’t love me or didn’t care about me.

 

I just, I think she didn’t know what to do and was hoping that maybe it would just. Go away or it was just like my young kid imagination. But I think like in a way that kind of sent me a message of like, this is wrong, this is bad. If she’s not doing anything or not saying anything or it’s not being brought up or talked about again, like what does that mean?

 

Kimberley: Yeah, I mean how old were you when you found out that your grandmother had schizophrenia? ’cause that would be triggering for people with harm o CD as well. 

 

Lacey: Yeah, I mean, my mom. Would talk about it. I, I could probably count on one hand how many times I met her. I just remember hearing really wild stories about her, about how she would like write messages on the walls and do some like really scary stuff.

 

That kind of fed into another subtype I dealt with. Thinking that, you know, maybe I was schizophrenic ’cause I had these thoughts in my head. Um, but I probably didn’t really understand until understand her diagnosis probably until later on in 1516. Yeah. 

 

Kimberley: Yeah. So, okay. So you were having the onset of these intrusive thoughts.

 

What compulsions, so we know that harm OCD is a particular subtype of OCDA, type of OCD, and then when we have these OC d sub obsessions and these subtypes, we engage in compulsions. What were some of the compulsions that you were engaging in to sort of reduce or remove the uncertainty that you felt around these thoughts?

 

Lacey: Yeah, I had a lot of mental compulsions. Um, I would do a lot of reassurance. Just constantly reassuring myself, I would never do that. I’m a good person. I would use situations as evidence, right? Like, well, I was just in the kitchen with knives and I didn’t do anything, so that means that, you know, I’m, I’m okay.

 

And so much avoidance. 

 

Kimberley: Hmm, 

 

Lacey: so much avoid. Anything that could be used as a weapon, I avoided. 

 

Kimberley: Mm. So you were avoiding knives or scissors or needles 

 

Lacey: or what? I was avoiding any type of knives, whether it was plastic, butter, knife steak, knives. I avoided boiling water. I didn’t like being in the kitchen because I didn’t like being around anything of that vicinity.

 

I avoided, uh, garbage disposals. I avoided razors. I didn’t like shaving my legs. I didn’t like doing anything like that. I mean, it got so bad, so bad that it was to the point where like anything that could be used as harm, I avoided it. I avoided going near my windows ’cause I was afraid I was going to jump out of my windows course.

 

Kimberley: So you had self harm as well? 

 

Lacey: Yes. 

 

Kimberley: Self-harm, uh, self-harm obsessions or subtype, right? Mm-hmm. So, okay. And during this time, you’re still sleeping with your sister, so I’m guessing, like, how did you fall asleep? Like what was that like? How did you play with her? Or did you avoid her completely too? 

 

Lacey: Um, I, I didn’t avoid her so much, um, because through during the day, I’d like to say that like I was a little bit more distracted.

 

There was a lot of other stuff going on. Um, and she was younger than me, so she, she kept me busy for sure, but I begged my parents to put a TV in my bedroom because it was the only way that I could shut off my thoughts and go to bed was to have And did they? Yeah, 

 

Kimberley: they did. They did. 

 

Lacey: Mm-hmm. Until this day, I mean, there’s times where I’m like, I need the tv.

 

I know, I don’t. 

 

Kimberley: Okay, interesting. So did you ever, like, where did you start to like learn that you could retreat this or that this was a problem that wasn’t just yours? Like what was the evolution? Now you are a fully trained OCD therapist. You work for me, you work with clients with OCD and you treat our clients with harm.

 

OCD. How did you go from that little girl who avoided everything to now where you are? What did that look like for you? 

 

Lacey: It looked like a lot of different things. Um, you know, like I don’t think I really understood what was happening until I was probably like 21 years old. 

 

Kimberley: Wow. 

 

Lacey: Yeah. So. And I think an important thing to mention was that I never told anybody what was happening in my head and probably until then, so I went years and years.

 

Just suffering in silence and you would never have known. But I was probably 21. I was at college at Penn State and I was sharing a dorm room, dorm room with three other girls, and it was like unbearable. 

 

Kimberley: Hmm. 

 

Lacey: Um, I was terrified to do like anything with them. I was afraid to be around ’em. I was afraid to be alone in the apartment with them, and I just remember.

 

Being, I, I, I was going home for a weekend and I was on one of those buses, I think it’s like a three and a half hour bus ride. And I just spent the entire bus ride researching like, what is wrong with me? Why do I have these thoughts that I wanna hurt people, but I don’t want to hurt people? And, um, I, that’s probably the first time I saw anything about OCD.

 

Um, and of course I felt like this wave of relief, I’m like, oh. Okay. Like, I’m not this, you know. Psychopath serial killer that I’ve convinced myself I am for the last, you know, 15 years of my life. So, I mean, that felt good, but it was kind of like a rollercoaster because when I got back to school, we had a, uh, our mental health department was called caps, and I remember going in there.

 

Um, to speak to a psychiatrist, but something when, you know, when you go into a mental health facility, you have to fill out the assessment where it’s like, do you have any thoughts of hurting yourself? And I’m like, I don’t know what to put. 

 

Kimberley: Hmm. 

 

Lacey: Like, do I put yes? Do I put no? I, I truly like, did not know what the answer, 

 

Kimberley: what did you write?

 

Lacey: I put yes. Set. 

 

Kimberley: Yes. You’re honest. And what did they say? 

 

Lacey: I knew there was also a really long waiting list, so I was like, all right, well maybe if I, I, I need to get in, like I need to see somebody today. But it actually set me back a little bit because I went in to talk to one of the psychiatrists, and again, like, I can’t remember this so vividly.

 

And she had like a. Student with her, I guess somebody that was shadowing her and she kind of let her take the reins a little bit and I just like word vomited, like I just let it out. I was like, I have these intrusive thoughts that I’m gonna hurt people. I can’t do anything. Like everything I do makes me like my imagination will.

 

Connect to anything. Um, and the psychiatrist was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like I need to like step in and be the one to like take the reins on this. So she kind of like not pushed the other, you know, the student outta the way, but kind of took control a little bit, which like freaked me out. 

 

Kimberley: Yeah, 

 

Lacey: because I was like, oh my gosh, like why is she panicking?

 

Kimberley: Yeah. 

 

Lacey: I was like, oh my gosh, she’s gonna send me to the hospital. Like, I’m going to get admitted. I’m not gonna com, like graduate college. Like, oh, it was a really, really scary experience and she gave me medication and sent me on my way, but there was no like psycho psychoeducation. She didn’t once bring up.

 

The term OCDI. She just really assessed me like, do you have intent? Do you want to do these things? No. Okay. Well here you go. 

 

Kimberley: So what happened then? 

 

Lacey: I mean, I think by this point, like I had tried so many therapists that. I mean, it’s partially like, I don’t wanna say my fault, but you know, I wasn’t, that was the first time I was really honest about my thoughts and I think at that point I was like, well, I guess I just gotta do this on my own.

 

Kimberley: Yep, yep. 

 

Lacey: So I spent more hours. You know, researching and learning, like, what can I do to fix this or, you know, make this a little bit better. And it’s hard to like think back because I spent so much time doing that, that it took away from like my college experience. 

 

Kimberley: Mm-hmm. 

 

Lacey: Um, but I just did a lot of my own exposures.

 

Yes. I would purposely do the things that my thought. Would tell me not to do if I walked by, you know, a knife in the kitchen. My initial reaction was to avoid and like go isolate in my room. Um, but I would like open up the fridge and be like, huh, what can I cut up for dinner tonight? And really just try to like lean into it.

 

It was hard. But 

 

Kimberley: you were doing that on your own. How did you know to do that? Did you research it? Did you 

 

Lacey: I 

 

Kimberley: did. Like how did you, 

 

Lacey: yeah. 

 

Kimberley: Like you were doing this on your own. That had to be hard. 

 

Lacey: Yeah. I did a lot of research on the treatment for OCD. I kind of just diagnosed myself kind of, and just learned about different ways.

 

That I could, you know, expose myself in certain situations. Uh, I mean, I would, I would go to, like, something else that was really triggering for me was going to the mall ’cause I didn’t like walking on the third floor. So I would like purposely go to the mall and walk on the third floor. And I mean, looking back now, there was definitely a bit of like mental compulsion going on at the time.

 

I don’t think I was educated enough at the time to really realize what I was doing. But I also think it helps that like once I really got trained in ERP, I could. Incorporated even more into my life, which I do now every day. Having children was something that I was absolutely terrified to do. Um, if you would’ve asked me 15 years ago, if I would have two kids, I’d be like, not a chance.

 

I was so afraid to have kids. But now it’s like, I, I use them as, I don’t wanna say like I use them as my ERP, but 

 

Kimberley: did your, did your harm OCD attack your partner? Like, was that, like, some people will say like, yeah, sleeping next to somebody is really scary. Or they’ll say no, because I knew that they were bigger than me, or they could stronger than me.

 

Like, how, how did that. Go for you to have to all of a sudden be sleeping in the same room. 

 

Lacey: Yeah, it, it definitely targeted my partner. It, it’s almost like it would attach to whoever was like closest to me physically. Um, so like growing up it would attach to my sister and my parents, my brother, you know, when it was just me and my partner, it would definitely attach.

 

To him. I think what’s what helped me though was that my partner was so amazing and is so amazing that I felt safe enough to share with him what I was experiencing. Not so much in like a reassurance way, but more of just like this is. This is what happens in my head. And just like being able to share that with him felt really freeing and helped.

 

Kimberley: What did he say? Uh, like, like if, if you would’ve, like, if that, if he did a good job, like we could use it as like. A transcript for other folks? Like what? What did he do? How did you share? Like, tell me a little bit about what that looked like. 

 

Lacey: Yeah. I mean, to be fair, my husband is not an ERP specialist. He does not know anything about OCD, so there was definitely a little bit of reassurance happening, but maybe it was more assurance than reassurance.

 

Um, he really just listened and kind of validated. He’s like, wow, that must have been really hard for you to grow up like that. You know, the re the, the assurance piece of, you know, well, I know you and I know that you’re, you know, a amazing, caring, compassionate person. Um, whereas like hearing that, I mean, I’m sure it felt good because it felt like reassurance at the time, but hearing that was.

 

You know, helpful, a lot of validation. And then just like kind of asking me questions of like, is there anything I can do that you know can help? Or what do you need from me? How can I know when you’re having a hard time? Like, do you feel comfortable sharing that with me? So him just really providing like that open, safe, validating.

 

Space for me was really, I wanna say kind of like life changing in a way. 

 

Kimberley: Yeah. 

 

Lacey: You know, it was, he was like the first person that wasn’t family or blood relative that I’ve, you know, shared that with and to, you know, have that type of reaction. ’cause you know, for people with harm OCD, they’re afraid that they’re gonna get, you know, they’re gonna get locked away or people aren’t gonna wanna be around us.

 

So, 

 

Kimberley: yeah.

 

Now, as you know, I have a private practice. I have six amazing therapists in Calabasas, California. However, we do not take insurance now, if you are looking for insurance covered OCD or BFRB treat. I wanna let you know about no CD. No. CD provides face-to-face live video sessions with specialized licensed OCD therapists.

 

Now their therapists use exposure and response prevention. We know this is the gold standard for OCD, so you can be absolutely confirmed that you’re in the right place there. And they have a clinically proven app that helps you stay connected to your therapist. And others who have OCD between sessions, so you’ll always feel supported.

 

Now the cool thing is no OCD is available in all 50 US states and even internationally, and they accept most insurance plans making it affordable and accessible. We love that. Now, if you think you might have OCD or you’re struggling to manage your symptoms, you can book a free call. Just click the link in the show notes@ocd.com.

 

I am. Honored to partner with no cd. I want to remind you that recovery is possible. Please do not forget that now, big hugs, and let’s get back to the show. And I think too, when you have harm of cd, your inner narrative is really mean. Mm-hmm. Like I’m a bad person, I’m disgusting, I’m a hor, like I shouldn’t deserve good things.

 

Like I don’t deserve love. What kind of person could I be? Like, your brain really can attack you. So being treated, I’ve had clients who’ve said like being treated kindly felt like. Almost like a bizarre triggering thing. ’cause their brain was like, no, they, they, what if they don’t know you? And what if they missed something?

 

Or what if I didn’t explain it properly enough? It’s, I think it’s so interesting how OCD specifically harm can completely attack somebody’s identity o or view of themselves. Did that happen for you? 

 

Lacey: Yeah, I would definitely say so. I, you know, especially during those. Younger years, I was convinced that I was like this terrible psychopath that was gonna eventually like turn into a serial killer.

 

I was a horrible person for even having these thoughts. Um, ’cause what type of person would think these things about loved ones, normal people don’t think this way. So there was a lot of that self-talk going on and zero self-compassion especially. ’cause I did, I had no idea what was happening. So, I mean, I can’t like, you know, for someone who’s experiencing such.

 

And you know, it also felt like just to add like the intrusive harm thoughts also felt like urges sometimes. Some, there were times where it almost felt like my body was like pulling me to do something. 

 

Kimberley: Mm-hmm. 

 

Lacey: Yeah. Um, which was even more confusing ’cause it’s like, well now these, these aren’t just thoughts now they’re, they feel like urges, like my body’s like pushing me towards this knife.

 

Kimberley: Yeah. 

 

Lacey: And what kind of person would do that? Or think about that or have these thoughts. So, 

 

Kimberley: and they happened so rapidly too. Like, I think, I remember when I had a newborn, my daughter and I was standing, I’ve talked about this on the podcast before, but I was standing on, my parents had, uh, an apartment. It was like on the, the eighth floor or the 18th floor, I can’t remember.

 

It was very, very, very high up. And I remember holding my neon baby. She’s so sweet. And I had that urge to throw her off the edge of the balcony. But it wasn’t a thought. It was like this. Visceral feeling in my veins and my muscles of my arms where I was it, and it felt like it’s something I could have decided and initiated and completed within 2.2 seconds.

 

Uhhuh, that scared me. You know? It wasn’t like, oh, maybe you want to, it was like, oh, no, no, it’s happening like in, in less than a second, and it. Theory. 

 

Lacey: Yeah. I mean, 

 

Kimberley: take me to now though, like, so you’re a therapist who treats OCD now? 

 

Lacey: Mm-hmm. Yes. 

 

Kimberley: And you do exposures with clients with harm. 

 

Lacey: Mm-hmm. 

 

Kimberley: How are you, how do has that for you?

 

Do you get, so I’ve, I’ve consulted with therapists, lots of OCD therapists who are afraid that doing exposures with clients is gonna make them snap or it’s gonna trigger them again. Like, how is it now for you in this place? 

 

Lacey: Yeah. I mean, I would be lying if I. Said, like intrusive thoughts didn’t still pop in and out, you know?

 

Mm-hmm. I just, I’ve learned not to engage with them. I don’t really give them any importance or value anymore. I try to look at it from like, OCD has. Taken enough from my life, like I’m not gonna let it take anymore. So I think a significant part of my journey has just been like working on taking that power back.

 

So yeah, I mean, when I’m doing, you know, harm exposures with clients. Yes. Intrusive thoughts might still pop up, but there as quickly as they come is how they go. 

 

Kimberley: Yeah. 

 

Lacey: And like I, I almost feel like having a harm OCD can help me be even more creative with my exposures. Like a garbage disposal. Like some of my, like my, uh, coworkers or even some of my clients are like, why would you even think that?

 

And I’m like, well, 

 

Kimberley: right. Yeah. You’re like, been there, done that. I do think it’s really nice. When you have OCD to know that your therapist gets it. 

 

Lacey: Mm-hmm. 

 

Kimberley: Right? That they’ve been there, that they know the terror of harm obsessions. Um, so that’s one perspective. I also wanna say, like OCD therapists who haven’t had this OCD or type of OCD are still highly.

 

You know, gonna be able to treat it because OCD is, OCD is ocd, right? 

 

Lacey: Absolutely. 

 

Kimberley: So, I, I just for everybody listening, but what I do love about your story in particular is you got started on your own. It’s not like you came into a routine treatment manual, you know, you know, manualized treatment, you plugged away at these on your own, and a lot of people who are listening and watching might be feeling like, oh God, it’s.

 

I need a professional, this is too dangerous or scary. Like, what advice might you give them if they’re trialing this on their own or maybe they don’t have access? A lot of what we do is giving access to people who don’t have therapy or access to therapy. What advice would you give them? 

 

Lacey: Um, I think I would tell them that, I mean, I understand the belief that like, or the thought that it’s too hard or it.

 

It, it’s impossible. I think we are so much more capable than we think we are 

 

Kimberley: So, so many people here listening. If you’re listening and watching, we know that CBT school is about giving resources to folks who maybe don’t have one-on-one therapy. You did this on your own, right? You. Have a manualized therapist who are treating you using, you know, this very routine treatment.

 

What were the steps like for you? You did research first, obviously. How did you get the confidence to start to do these exposures on your own? Because you shared about them, but I wanna make sure people like know they obviously weren’t easy to do. What was that like for you? 

 

Lacey: I think, you know, in that, in those moments, I just felt really like hopeless.

 

And I kind of got to like a breaking point of like, I am just really tired of living like this. Um, I’m tired of OCD telling me what I can do, where I can go, who can, who I can be around. Um, I just wanted, I wanna say I wanted my life back, but there’s a part of me that’s like, I just wanted to learn what my life could be like.

 

So, unfor, you know, at, at the time it was very difficult for me to find an OCD therapist. Um, I went to school in a. Small town, so I felt like my only option was. To just, you know, do it myself, and I really just leaned into it. I think I used fear as almost like a motivator in a way. Like the idea of not living a life was scarier than these exposures.

 

And I think I started to realize that the more that I did it and you know, I would do one exposure and that would kind of give me the confidence to do three or four exposures. And before I knew it, it turned into 10 exposures and then, you know, I was just living it and just incorporating it into my everyday life.

 

Kimberley: Yeah. Amazing. Okay. So I think you’ve done this beautiful job of explaining like, and validating and how I think people are gonna feel very understood in how you’ve explained it. Take me to like zoom in to the moment where you have the intrusive thought. Mm-hmm. Back then you would’ve avoided, you would’ve judged yourself, you would’ve ruminated.

 

Like, what are the steps you take now when you, okay, you’ve just had that intrusive thought. Maybe you’ve had the urge, or maybe it’s. This image that flashes across your mind, what are some of the steps that you take now to get you through that without doing compulsions? 

 

Lacey: Yeah. Well, I am, I use values a lot in my, not just in my work as a therapist, but in my personal life as well.

 

I think that, you know, like I mentioned earlier with having two kids at home, a lot of my harm obsessions. Attached to them because they’re the most important things in my life and I love them dearly. So, you know, if I am, you know, cooking at the kitchen counter and I am using, you know, a sharp knife to cut something up, and my kid is sitting right there, you know.

 

Couple years ago, my initial reaction would be like, get out now. And now I kind of like lean into it. I use a lot of like thought diffusion statements. There’s a skill that I use with my clients a lot. I refer to my OCD as the high school bully. So like if you yell back at the bully, it’s just gonna feed into him.

 

He’s just gonna make him get louder. If I try to avoid or run away from the bully, he’s gonna follow me. But if I just kind of like acknowledge him, like, oh, hey there. Thanks. Thanks for stopping by and then go on about my way. The bully’s gonna get bored and he’s gonna leave me alone, and that’s kind of how I treat my OCD now is when the thought pops up.

 

I’m like, all right, thanks. Thanks for stopping by and just kind of go on about my day. I really try to lean into it, like if my OCDs. Telling me, you know, I could hurt my child and I need to leave. I will just do the opposite and I’ll go give my child a hug and squeeze ’em a little bit tighter. And yeah, I think that’s really helped me remain.

 

I guess like, I don’t know. I don’t know what I was gonna say there. 

 

Kimberley: What does it help you remain? How has it helped you? 

 

Lacey: It’s helped me stay in the present. For sure. Um, be in the present with my kids doing what’s important, being with things that matter to me. 

 

Kimberley: Yeah. Amazing. So we, I, I think that you’ve done this beautiful job and thank you.

 

’cause this is vulnerable information. I’m so grateful. I’m number one. I’m grateful that I get to work with you. I’m so grateful you shared this story. I love that the staff are coming onto the show. It makes me so happy. If there was one message that you wanted to give someone who has harmless. CD or even if family members are listening, what, what would it be that you would really want them to know?

 

Lacey: The first thing that pops up is something that I consistently share with my clients, and it’s that the thoughts aren’t the problem. The reaction is, 

 

Kimberley: Hmm. 

 

Lacey: And then, yeah, I don’t know why, that’s just the first thing that pops up, but it’s something that I consistently share with myself with. Clients. Yeah. I think I feel like it’s a important message.

 

Kimberley: Amazing. Lacey, I have loved chatting with you about this. I feel like we could go over this for hours, right? Mm-hmm. Because there’s so many nuances that we could learn as treating harm o cd. If people want to do this on their own, they can head over to the your OCD toolkit, which is at CBT School, and they can work with you by going to my website.

 

Again, you’re amazing. Thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your wisdom and your story and your cool, like little ways in which you’ve gotten through this. It’s very, very inspiring. 

 

Lacey: Of course. Um, I’m very grateful to be here and to be able to share this and hopefully reaches somebody who needs it.

 

Kimberley: Please note that this podcast or any other resources from cbt school.com should not replace. Professional mental health care. If you feel you would benefit, please reach out to a provider in your area. Have a wonderful day, and thank you for supporting cbt school.com.